About the EVDL:
The Electric Vehicle Discussion List, founded in 1991 by EV enthusiast Clyde Visser, supports people involved
with electric vehicles. Its roots are in hobbyist conversions of conventional vehicles to electric drive. Since
2012 it's expanded into more discussion of production EVs.
According to the list's charter:
The EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion Mailing List is intended to provide a forum to discuss the current state of
the art and future direction of electric vehicles. It is not intended to discuss either EV appropriateness or
comparisons with other transportation primary drive modes such as the venerable internal combustion engine.
Those discussions are best relegated to the appropriate usenet newsgroup.
An electric vehicle is any vehicle which uses an electric motor as the primary or sole motive force. The energy
storage device used to drive said motor can use any technology including, but not limited to, solar electric,
electric battery, fuel cell, internal combustion engine coupled with an electric generator (hybrids), or any
combination of these.
Production electric vehicles are available. Internal combustion engine vehicles can be
converted to electric power. A number of companies perform this conversion. A number of manufacturers
provide equipment and components allowing you to "do it yourself."
If you're thinking about buying an EV or building your own, you'll find here hundreds of folks all around the
world, from California to Australia, who can help.
Archives: Have a look at the archives before you subscribe, to see whether this list is what you're
looking for. The official one is the
To start with, you need an email address. Don't use the mailname "lists" (for example, lists@bogosity.net)
or you'll run afoul of a bug in the
EVDL Configuration Page.
Use something else, please.
To subscribe by email, send a message to the list processor address:
ev-request@lists.evdl.org
Either the subject or the body of the message should contain:
subscribe
Don't include a signature or any other text in the message body. If your email system
won't let you send a message without a subject or without a body, just repeat the
command.
Either way, the listserver will email you a confirmation message with instructions. If you don't
receive it in a few minutes, check your spam folder.
You can reply to the confirmation message, or open the web link in the message with your browser.
You'll soon get a welcome message. If not, check your spam folder. It will have a password
which you'll need to make adjustments to your subscription (digest mode, suspend mail, unsubscribe).
You should save this message, but you probably won't. No worries; you can get a password reminder at the
EVDL Configuration Page.
Posting:
To post a message to the list, email it to:
.
How quickly you see it mailed back depends on how loaded the server is. Sometimes it's seconds, sometimes it's hours.
If you're in a hurry to reach someone in particular, try the phone.
Stopping EVDL mail temporarily:
You'll probably want to do this when you go on vacation. That way you won't
return to find your mailbox clogged with 953 EVDL messages. PLEASE don't forget to do this if you use an
auto-responder. Think about what a listserver does and you'll realize why.
Browse to your
EVDL Configuration Page.
If you've lost your password, enter the email
address you use for the EVDL and leave the password blank. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and click the
Remind button. You'll get your password by email in a few minutes. Copy and paste it into the form
and click the Log In button.
On the next page, scroll down to the grey area and find Mail Delivery (first item). Click the radio button
for Disabled. Scroll all the way to the bottom and click the Submit My Changes button. Done.
Restarting EVDL mail:
Follow the above instructions, but click the Enabled radio
button instead of the Disabled radio button.
Setting Digest Mode:
If you ask for digests instead of single messages, the listserver
will squirrel away messages until it decides it's collected enough, and then send them
to you scrunched into a single message.
Browse to your
EVDL Configuration Page.
If you've lost your password, enter the email
address you use for the EVDL and leave the password blank. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and click the
Remind button. You'll get your password by email in a few minutes. Copy and paste it into the form
and click the Log In button.
On the next page, scroll down to the grey area and find Set Digest Mode (second item). Click the radio
button for Enabled or Disabled. Scroll all the way to the bottom and click the Submit My Changes
button. Done.
Warning #1: Digests can be large! Thanks to Microsoft's decision to make top-posting the norm in Outlook
Express, by replying to a digest you can accidentally create a message so huge that the listserver will refuse
to send it. To prevent this, please delete everything that you're not replying to before you send your post.
Warning #2: Digests have unhelpful subjects. When you reply, please change it to something more relevant.
This may be a good place to request that you read about
netiquette.
By email: compose a message to the list processor
address :
ev-request@lists.evdl.org
Either the subject or the body of the message should say :
unsubscribe
The list processor will send you a confirmation email to make sure you really want to
unsubscribe, which keeps nefarious folk from unsubscribing you without your knowledge.
Warning #1: The unsubscribe email command won't work if it's sent to the posting address. See above.
Warning #2: Make sure you send your unsubscribe command from the same email address that you used when you signed
up for the list.
If you have trouble unsubscribing,
contact me
and I'll unsubscribe you manually.
If you've lost your password, enter the email
address you use for the EVDL and leave the password blank. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and click the
Remind button. You'll get your password by email in a few minutes. Copy and paste it into the form
and click the Log In button.
After changing any of the settings below, scroll to the very bottom of the page and click the Submit My Changes
button, or nothing you've done will take effect.
Unsubscribe.
Change your Email Address.
Change your password.
Have your current password emailed to you.
Disable mail delivery temporarily. See above.
Set Digest mode. See above.
Request Plain text digests or MIME digests. This has no effect if you're not in
digest mode. You may like MIME digests better. Try them and see. Some mail systems don't handle
MIME digests well, so you may not have a choice after all.
Unset Echo mode. Echo mode determines whether you receive copies of your own messages.
The default is on. I don't know why anyone would turn this off, but there it is if you want it. Gmail and some
other email systems seem to recognize your own posts and refuse to display them, regardless of how you
set Echo mode.
Set Acknowledge mode. If you turn this on, every time you post a message, the
listserver will send you a message telling you that your message has been distributed. I guess this is
in case you decide to turn off Echo mode, and then wonder whether anyone's listening. The default is off.
Set Password Reminder. The EVDL can send you mildly annoying monthly reminders
of your password and how to make changes. The default is off.
Unset Avoid Duplicates. If this option is set, the list will try to avoid sending you
extra copies of emails where your own address is included in the TO and/or CC field. The default is on.
Solving Common Problems:
What to do when something goes wrong.
Q: I can't subscribe. I get a message that says, "List EV is closed; no more subscriptions are accepted
unless sent directly by the subscription manager."
A: You're using an obsolete subscription address and instructions. That was two servers and 15 years ago,
but that old address is still floating round the web. Use ev-request@lists.evdl.org instead.
Q: I posted, but I didn't see my message.
A: Possible causes and suggestions:
Is your post in the
archive?
If so, it means that your message is reaching everyone else. Most likely you have an overactive spam filter.
Whitelist the EVDL address.
Make sure you're using the correct address for posting --
We share the listserver with other lists. It might be overloaded right now. Give it a few hours before you start worrying.
Are you getting EVDL mail from others? If not, the listserver might be down. Give it 24 hours, and if it's not back up,
contact me.
Are you sure that you're really subscribed? Maybe your subscription didn't "take."
Mail from nonsubscribers falls silently into the bit bucket.
If any of the following is true, you're probably not subscribed to the EVDL:
When you subscribed, you didn't receive a confirmation message.
You didn't reply to the confirmation message, or didn't follow its directions 100%.
You replied, but you didn't receive the welcome message and your password.
You got the welcome message, but It's been a week or so and you still haven't received any EVDL
messages.
Are you sure you're sending from the email address that you subscribed with? Mail from unsubscribed addresses
falls silently into the bit bucket.
Has your email address changed, even just a little? That will confuse the listserver. Sometimes your mail service might
send your mail with a slightly different address without warning you. To fix this, re-subscribe, using your
correct address.
Maybe you accidentally turned off your Receive Your Own Posts option. Check your
configuration page.
The listserver might have delayed or rejected your message for having too many addresses in the TO or CC fields.
Solution: put any extra addresses in the BCC field.
The listserver might have delayed or rejected your message for having NO address in the TO field. It
probably thought it was spam. Make sure you have the list posting address above in the TO field.
Your message is too long, over 40 kilobytes. Typically this is because you replied to a digest but left the whole
digest on the end of your message. Please don't do that. Or you might have pasted in something really long.
Please don't do that either. Send a link instead.
You attached a binary file to your message. Please don't do that. Post files somewhere on the web and send a link instead.
Your email system uses a weird format that the EVDL server doesn't understand. The symptom is getting a rejection notice
that says something like "The message's content type was not explicitly allowed." To fix this, make sure that your
mail system is sending plain ASCII text, no HTML, rich text, or fancy formatting.
Q: I asked a question, and it showed up on the list, but nobody answered.
A: It's possible that nobody knows the answer. It does happen! Or maybe you just need to be a little clearer.
Don't use a generic subject such as "EV Problem," say something specific -- for example,
"Charger won't shut off."
Give us some background. What vehicle? If it's a conversion, what motor, controller, batteries? What charger? Where are
you located? What happened just before the problem started?
Q: My email system isn't working too well with the EVDL, and/or IT here is griping about the amount of
list traffic. What now?
A: Try something different. Here are a few "free" (ad-supported) services that other EVDL members use.
Gmail
(Google Mail) is the current favorite. At last count, 32% of EVDLers were using it.
They say they like the threaded display. Gmail also delivers EVDL mail reliably.
One downside of Gmail is that it filters out the list's return of your own posts. Apparently
Google considers this a feature.
Another is
privacy.
Gmail's software reads your mail and serves up ads related
to it. Some folks find that the ads are
occasionallyentertaining.
Yahoo
used to be popular, but only 12% of our subscribers still use it. The same privacy concerns as Google's apply. Yahoo has blocked
EVDL mail from time to time.
Yahoo's servers also handle AOL, AIM, and Verizon mail. The EVDL got so many bounces from these accounts that
it had to unsubscribe most of them to avoid being overloaded.
Microsoft Webmail Services (Hotmail, Outlook, Live, MSN) are the choice of 9% of our subscribers. The EVDL server
has had trouble with them in the past. Their spam filters can be twitchy.
Q: I thought I unsubscribed, but I'm still getting mail.
A: Here are a few possibilities and suggestions:
Sometimes it takes a while for the unsubscription to take effect. Give it 24 hours or so.
Did you use the right listserver address and command? Obsolete instructions are floating round the web. Look
here
for the right way.
Did you use the same address you subscribed with? Your ISP might have changed your address subtly without telling you.
Did you include the word unsubscribe in your email to the listserver? Are you sure you typed it right?
One person tried to unsubscribe by typing "unscribe."
Did you reply to the confirmation message? The server sends this so that other people can't unsubscribe you without your
knowledge. If you never saw one, check your spam filter.
If unsubscribing by email isn't working, try the web method.
If you can't unsubscribe yourself, contact me right away, and I'll unsubscribe you manually.
Q: I need to shut off my EVDL mail while I'm on vacation, but the EVDL's Configuration Page wants
a password. What password?
A: Your password was in your welcome message when you subscribed. You did save that message,
yes? No worries, nobody else saves it either. The listserver will send you a password reminder.
At the top of the page, enter the email address you use for the EVDL. Leave the password blank for now.
Scroll to the bottom of the page, and click the Remind button.
A new page will open. At the very top it will say, "A reminder of your password has been emailed to you."
Leave this page open in your browser.
Check your email. Within a few minutes you should receive a message from the
server containing your password. Highlight and copy the password.
Back in your browser, paste (or type) the password into the Password blank on the web page. Click the Log
In button right under that blank. You'll be taken to your personal EVDL configuration page where you can
suspend or resume your EVDL mail, and change various other settings.
IMPORTANT: When you're done making the changes you want, scroll all the way to the bottom of your
configuration page and click the Submit My Changes button. If you don't, none of your changes will
actually take effect.
Q: I got my password reminder from the listserver, but it doesn't work. What am I doing wrong?
A: Make sure you're actually using the
EVDL Configuration Page.
If you're getting an error message that says "No registered user found for this email, please enter
a correct email address and click Get Password," you're in the wrong place.
Q: I received an email that says "Your membership in the mailing list EV has been disabled
due to excessive bounces." What's the problem?
A: Your mail system has been bouncing list mail back to the listserver. It can't handle all the bounces,
so it's temporarily stopped trying to send you mail.
There are 3 common reasons for this.
Your mailbox is full. Delete some messages.
Your ISP has decided that EVDL mail is spam. Contact them and tell them that it isn't.
Your ISP's mail server is overloaded. Contact them. You might have to try a different email provider.
If you reply to the message that says your mail has been disabled, the EVDL listserver will restart your EVDL
mail. You can also restart your mail from your
personal configuration page.
Make sure that whatever problem caused your mail to clog up in the first place has been fixed, or
the same thing will just happen again in a few weeks.
List conventions: Mostly just a matter of good
netiquette
and respectful behavior.
Be collegial and civil. Remember that our members come from all backgrounds and
have many different reasons for interest in EVs. Not all are environmentalists, though many are.
They come from all over the political spectrum.
Follow the Fidonet Principles:
Thou shalt not be too annoying.
Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.
Avoid off-topic subjects likely to cause flames, especially partisan politics and religion.
Don't post racist, xenophobic, or sexist comments. Don't promote hatred or violence.
Keep it clean. Profanity still offends some people, especially when it invokes the names
of deities or drops the "F-bomb." If you just have to swear, why not be creative and make up some
interesting new curses?
Treat list members online as you'd treat them face to face.
Argue your points with verifiable facts, not insults or abuse.
If you post an opinion, don't forget to flag it with the standard "IMHO."
I discourage discussion of politics and environmentalism, but sometimes these subjects are bound up
closely with EVs and we just can't avoid them. Part of civility is the personal discipline that keeps the
discussion cordial in those cases. This means holding your fire when someone's opinion angers you, and
remaining tolerant of others who hold views you don't agree with.
Some people think that being collegial and civil amounts to being "politically correct." Well, PC is just
another term for "polite." If you refuse to be polite, sorry, you'll have to find somewhere else to discuss EVs.
Stay on Topic. Mildly off-topic posts are OK if you flag them with "OT" in the
subject line. Please use good judgement and stay close to EV-related subjects.
Please, no overunity devices, magnetic motors, free energy, perpetual motion machines,
or anything else that appears to violate the laws of classical physics. You might try
overunity.com or
Peswiki.
This list is focused on EVs, not on the energy to run them. Let's not argue about nuclear power, please.
Try to frame PV (solar) energy in an EV context.
Questions and comments about ICE vehicles (internal combustion engine powered) are way off topic
for the EVDL, unless you're in the process of converting one to an EV. You'd think this would be obvious.
Non-plug-in hybrid vehicles are not EVs. These vehicles have plenty of other homes on the net anyway.
On the other hand, if you want to try converting one to a 100% plug-in battery EV, let's talk. (You're brave.
Ask us why.)
From the list's
charter.
"[The EVDL] is not intended to discuss
either EV appropriateness or comparisons with other transportation primary drive modes such as the venerable
internal combustion engine." This means that we're not here to debate whether EVs are practical or
desirable or useful in a general way. It does not mean that we won't help you decide whether an EV will work
for your own personal situation.
The charter notwithstanding, many years ago, EVDL members decided that fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen power
were not things they wanted to talk about much. Who am I to argue?
The EVDL is not a general purpose bulletin board. Internet chain letters, virus warnings, urban legends, political
and religious tracts, inspirational and humorous stories, and the like are not appropriate. Try Facebook or Twitter.
The EVDL is an email discussion list. We know that it's old fashioned. We've discussed changing to other
formats such as a web forum many times, and decided not to. If you don't like it, why not try our
archive / forum gateway?
No advertising. The EVDL is a noncommercial, informational resource.
That said, our hobbyist EV builders need reputable vendors and manufacturers of
EV parts, products, and services. If you're one of those, you're welcome here, but I ask that
you follow a few guidelines:
No unprompted mentions. Don't post just to mention your products and/or services. Bring them up only
when an existing conversation (thread) makes the discussion appropriate and natural. We're a bit flexible on
this for long-time members, as long as it's done judiciously and tastefully. But no spam.
No promotional language. Announce and discuss your products and services only in factual, value-neutral
terms (like NPR and PBS sponsorship announcements). Save the glowing descriptions for your own website.
No stealth mentions. If you're involved with a business that figures in your post, say so, and tell us
what your involvement is.
Not too often. How often is too? Well, for example, if every time someone asks about controllers,
you post about the controllers you have for sale, that's probably too often.
Support users of your products and services on the EVDL.
As best you can, also take part in general EV help and support, even when it's unrelated to your products and/or
services. We need your knowledge and experience. Besides, people you help are more apt to become your
customers.
Since one way to build an EV on the cheap is to buy used parts, you're also allowed to mention personal EVs and
EV components for sale, with some limitations:
The EVDL is a discussion list, not a swap shop. Ebay is a good place to advertise. You can announce your
listing with a link on the EVDL. (Be sure to tell us it's yours.)
Don't keep nagging us to look at your ad. One post is plenty. Maybe a second one after a couple of weeks.
That's enough. Thanks.
You're welcome to alert us to goodies you've spotted for sale. Don't keep dunning us, though. Don't forget to disclose
your relationship to the seller, even it's "none."
Post in plain ASCII text. Please, no HTML or "rich text."
Don't send binary attachments. If you have something to share, please post it on a free, open,
public website and email the list the URL. "Free and open" does NOT mean your private Flickr page
or your login-required Facebook page. "Free and open" does NOT mean something that other people have to
sign up for, even if signup is free. Wikipedia has some suggestions
here
and
here.
Trim quoted text. Don't repeat the entire message to which you're replying. Be especially careful
of this if you're on the digest.
Be original. Your own thoughts and ideas are more valuable and interesting than anything you might
find elsewhere. Not only is copy and paste a pretty feeble substitute for creativity, it also risks copyright
violation.
Guard your rights. Posting material on the EVDL is equivalent to releasing it into the public domain.
It may end up in FAQs and other public resources. Don't post anything that you want to retain ownership or
copyright in.
Be circumspect. The EVDL is archived in several public places, most of which are not under my
control. If you wouldn't want a relative, friend, rival, [ex-] employer, [ex-] spouse, or [ex-]
partner to see what you wrote, don't send it to the EVDL.
You are responsible for your posts. Nobody else monitors them for content.
I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice. However, if you're writing something which
might be taken as libelous, slanderous, or otherwise might expose you to liability, I suggest that you consult
your attorney before posting it.
Moderation: I like a free exchange of ideas, so the EVDL is usually unmoderated.
Fortunately, our members are pretty good about following the list
conventions.
However, I also like good old fashioned civility. Flame wars drown out rational discussion of EVs and lead reasonable
people to unsubscribe. These are not good things. I don't moderate or ban users to keep them from expressing opinions,
or because I disagree with them. However, I reserve the right to moderate or even shut down flameish users or threads.
I think this is a pretty fair policy, even though judgement is involved. (How could it not be?) I realize that it's a bit controversial.
However, please note, moderation is not censorship. Censorship is something governments do. I am not
the government.
The EVDL is not a communication medium. The internet is, and a big one. There's lots of room out there for more
EV discussion lists and forums. If you don't like the EVDL's policies, try somewhere else, or start your own.
Getting support: To request help or report problems with the EVDL, please contact me at
.
